Database location and backup

Pieter

Don’ t remember how I tumbled into tonfotos. I have tried to find a new photo organizer and always failed. Tonfotos has the right feel, but missing some simple (?) features. I’ll post them in separate topics. Hope you may consider.

I’m not so happy with the location of the db, for several reasons:

It’s on the windows installation disk and that’s a smaller disk and… not portable.
I want to have the db for the photos on the usb disk where I keep the bulk of my photos, i.e. together with the photos. (I do plan to try adding NAS some day, but one db location is fine with me, just not the system disk)
If it is somewhere in the folder/disk where I keep the photos, it will also automatically be backed up with the photos (while a backup of the windows data is a far different thing)

Furthermore, I find it very important that if I spend considerable time and effort on building albums, I must have those albums in an open format. Well OK if the program uses a binary db for interal working, but I want an import/export method. (I have 20 years history in an old organizer. So far I stick to it, because it keeps albums in an open format. No open format album import/export is a no-go). And ideal for me would be an automatic export (after any update)… again on the same disk, i.e. with the db.

Andrey

Pieter That is true that C: is quite often smallest disk in the system, but it is also typicallly the fastest. Fast DB accesss is essetinal for Tonfotos functionality and responsiveness. Also, storing db on external drives adds whole new set of issues with stability. So technically it is possible, but it reality it can turn into nightmare.

What types of data you would like to export from internal Tonfotos DB? For some time people used to name faces, but just recently we added function to store faces into XMP data. As to albums, you can use Tags instead. In Tonfotos both Albums and Tags are pretty much the same function, the only difference is Albums are stored only locally, while tags are written into file metadata and can be read by any other application. So is there anything else left that is locked in internal db? I don’t think so.

What was the other program you are using with open albums format? I am not sure I actually understsand what exactly you mean by open album format, so I would appreciate if you wouls share some light.

Pieter

Andrey That is true that C: is quite often smallest disk in the system, but it is also typicallly the fastest. Fast DB accesss is essetinal for Tonfotos functionality and responsiveness. Also, storing db on external drives adds whole new set of issues with stability. So technically it is possible, but it reality it can turn into nightmare.

You’ll know better than me what people do with tools like this. Maybe most of the people around get tired of managing photos after few years or don’t care about starting over. In my experience, over the different PC’s etc. that e.g. my father had, I had to make sure that he didn’t loose the albums (and tons of other stuff) by backups and transferring properly etc. It took a lot of energy to assure having the right backups and transfer (because all tools think the same).

My guess is rather that people don’t think of such things… until it is too late.
If data or backup is stored with the photos, the tool takes care and I think that would be a big win, although few would be asking for the feature.

Now about speed: I think to keep it easy, you can let the user be the judge of that. But since you access the disk all the time to scan the photo’s, there’s plenty of chance to get an idea of at least the read speed of the disk that keeps the photos. So i think it could be smart.
About reliability/consistency. If it is stored with the photos, it’s as reliable as the photo storage? Only worry may be disconnect while writing, which I can imagine isn’t good for a database. (Although I’m guessing that strong mature database middleware would have robustness features available?)
The best balance could also be to implement it as a backup and not the main database.

I guess Tonfotos hasn’t been designed to be a portable app, neither does it matter a lot to me. But having the database with the photo’s also makes sure that any Tonfotos app on any laptop/any OS… can show me my photo’s with albums etc. (without having to go scanning them all again). It’s a nice feature (that will likely end up bottom of your list)

Pieter

Thanks! Where can I read about XMP support in Tonfotos? I’ll try to check but it seems the right solution: included in the photo backup and no tool lock-in. (Even though it means updates to the foto files itself as I understand, which is a bit of a disadvantage)

As to album, i was going to post another question/request: albums are more than a set of photos. For me, just a set of photo’s, that’s tags and your metadata solution seems fine to me. Tonfotos will also read metadata when “parsing” new foto libraries?

Album, the minimum to be useful to me is that photos can be custom sorted. When we used to make physical photo albums (my parents have some), we also didn’t put the photos randomly on the pages, nor in the order the photo’s were taken. That doesn’t work with photo metadata (?). And it’s also not how I have my 20 years history of albums. It’s now in an open (xml) format mostly. I can get it in any other open format. I probably can get it inside the photo exif too if that’s the thing. But just like I may consider moving to Tonfotos, I need the option open to move away from it if you would e.g. discontinue updates etc. There has gone a lot of work into that. Any other ideas are welcome, but sorting is a must have (and I believe I’ve seen it elsewhere on the forum when I quickly browsed through.).
Seeing how much effort you spent on fantastic people tagging features, I believe you will bring good album features one day.

Also on the “ease of use” of albums, Tonfotos, like the ton of other tools, could maybe improve. Especially this: I’m usually making/updating one specific album by going through a set of photos and adding them to the album. Often just at the end to start with (the only thing Tonfotos does now). But a “right click” “Add to album” <find in the list the right album> … is inefficient.
A way to indicate the currently active album (instead of “favourites”) and/or a keyboard shortcut to add to the active album would be great. (I have to still play with it, but maybe I could put the selection in “favourites” first and then move to an album.)
But once I start to have a sorting, it does happen that I browse through the originals again and find a specific photo to insert in a specific place. The old tool I still use now, helps me with that by a split screen (foto archive in the top, album view in the bottom). There are other alternatives like 2 screen (detach). Not sure what you/people like. You’re great at user friendly GUI, so i’m sure if you consider sorting there will be something practical.

Andrey

Pieter Where can I read about XMP support in Tonfotos?

If I understoood you right, it is here: https://community.tonfotos.com/d/535-version-1105-saving-person-data-in-xmp

Pieter Even though it means updates to the foto files itself as I understand, which is a bit of a disadvantage

Do you know any better solution?

Pieter Tonfotos will also read metadata when “parsing” new foto libraries?

Tonfotos read XMP and EXIF metadata, and some of them are used as Tags. If you need more specifics, please clarify what you want to know.

Pieter Album, the minimum to be useful to me is that photos can be custom sorted.

Funny enought, that was envisioned from the very beggining as part of the future albums functionality for Tonfotos and is supported on database level. However we follow agile metodology and implement what is actually needed by users. So far manual sorting was not among the most requsted functions, that is why there is still no UI for that.

Pieter It’s now in an open (xml) format mostly.

Can you please elaborate on that? XML is not so much a standard, it is more a language, and many standards can be based on this language. XMP is an example of more or less standartized data stored in XML. What kind of standard is used to store your album metadata? Sinve you refer to it as open, that kind of assumes that there is standard behind that, not just some proprietary implementation

Pieter Also on the “ease of use” of albums, Tonfotos, like the ton of other tools, could maybe improve. Especially this: I’m usually making/updating one specific album by going through a set of photos and adding them to the album. Often just at the end to start with (the only thing Tonfotos does now). But a “right click” “Add to album” <find in the list the right album> … is inefficient.
A way to indicate the currently active album (instead of “favourites”) and/or a keyboard shortcut to add to the active album would be great. (I have to still play with it, but maybe I could put the selection in “favourites” first and then move to an album.)

Good idea, thank you. If you have any references where this is alread implemented, that could also help.

GlikeG

I would love to know the location of the DB files to add them to the backup.

Andrey

GlikeG I would love to know the location of the DB files to add them to the backup.

this right thread: https://community.tonfotos.com/d/69-backup-database

Pieter

The fact that it is XML makes it open (and easy). That’s the next best thing in lack of a standard. Any bit of whizz kid in the family can turn open text based info from one into the other (text based) format.
I’ve had some small scripts to work with the xml before, e.g. copy it with the photos so that it doesn’t get lost. Make proprietary exports,…
Yes, it was proprietary and using xml is rather outdated (as it the tool I’m using - cam2pc - really stone age old). The important point is that 20 years later, I am still the owner, in control of the data. I spent a lot of time on those albums. And I wouldn’t spend it on any other tool unless I’m confident of the same.